Susan Sparks was a trial lawyer turned comedian who traveled from the Arctic Circle to the Cape of Good Hope, run a dog sled team, sung country music in Nashville, worked with Mother Teresa’s mission in Calcutta, trained as both a wilderness guide and a fly fisher woman and ridden across the country on a Harley, climbed Kilimanjaro, drove her jeep wrangler across Alaska before she decided to make a change in her career... She is the Senior Pastor of Madison Avenue Baptist Church in New York City-- the first woman in its 160-year history.
Pictures and videos on Diva Maverick Mavens provided courtesy of Susan Sparks.
Angelia Miller is the founder of Diva Maverick Mavens www.divamaverickmavens.com a new bread of feisty, non-conformist adventure loving adrenaline-high entrepreneur. The tag-line is: Empowering Women by Interviewing Empowered Women...Inspiring "You" to Take Action! Casting exceptional dynamic talent for fresh content is the mission of Diva Maverick Mavens. The interview is in the original transcript form with minimal editing to preserve the integrity of the content.
How were you raised in regards to humor and religion?
Susan Sparks:
I was raised in the South which you can probably already tell with my accent I'm from Charlotte, NC. I came out of a religious tradition where humor was not apart of it at all. In fact, it was the kind of place where you would go in and come out about three or four inches shorter because you were so bent over from all the guilt, so comedy was not apart of that in anyway shape or form. This was hard for a kid like me who was the class clown and who came at the world with a lens of humor. We all have a way of seeing the world and mine just happens to be with laughter, humor and joy. It's a hard lesson for a kid when in the holiest of places, the most respected of places your told that, that part of you is not welcome and so I ended up leaving the church for almost twenty years after that for a number of reasons that being one of the biggest reasons. It has been an important journey for me to come back to the spiritual path in an authentic way where who I am as a human being a little jokester, a person who likes to laugh, can actually stand in a pulpit, or be in a church, a place of organized religion and know that it's welcome; this has been a hugh journey for me.
How did you get into law and then ultimately leaving the law to pursue your passion?
Susan Sparks:
I wanted to say that it was a big bad wrong turn but that isn't fair. I think that we all make choices and take turns in our lives and while of them don't seem like the right thing but once we look back on it; it's always a stepping stone. Bottom line I went to law school because the folks wanted it. There were no lawyers in my family and I was a debater in high school and college. It just seemed like the natural thing to do. Maybe some of your listeners can relate to this. There is always a point in high school or college where you sort of reel out a possible career path and you can see your parent's eyes start to sparkle and your like oh, that's it; that's what I should do. So many times, we take that path because it makes the family and the friends happy and unfortunately early in life we don't ask ourselves is that what I want. Is this what really makes my eyes sparkle? Long story short I ended going to law school and making everyone happy but me. I did it for ten years. It used the skill set that I have. I was a decent speaker and I could pull off a jury argument pretty well but it didn't use the skill set in a way that made my heart happy. I found myself waking up after ten years of this career thinking what have I done or what will I do today that will make the world a much better place. I couldn't answer the question and that's not to say that there isn't great public interest law out there; I just wasn't in it and that was a turning point for me.
Would you say that humor was apart of your family?
Susan Sparks:
I had a family that would appreciate a good joke but it wasn't something that they held up as important. When I was practicing law, I started dabbling in stand up comedy. I studied stand up because I thought it would make me a better lawyer and a better speaker but what I found when I stood up in front of an audience I loved it. I wanted to pursue comedy as a career and not just as a lawyer and when my family found out they thought that's kind of cute. My family thought: That's something you put in a Christmas card to the relatives but that's not a career. Why are you doing that it makes no sense? I think there is a point when your heart starts to speak and you head down a path and people get a little shocked because they don't see it as an acceptable or predictable career path in their eyes. Again, this is neither good nor bad I just think that's just the way they were wired. The comedy started coming out and then I started doing musical theater and singing. All of the Arts started to come out of me and wow that's when I knew I had to get out of the practice of law. Just as a side story, I guess it was year ten and I was working in a bank when somehow one of our card members got through to me on the phone and announced to me that Jesus had appeared to her in her living room and that her Visa bill had been forgiven. She wanted know if I as the lawyer at the bank could help her get it straightened out. Angelia, I was laughing so hard and then I realized she was serious. I told her I hadn't seen Jesus. I don't know anything about your credit card bill and I really can't help you and I hung up the phone. I told my boss and maybe a few other people and my boss told me that maybe that was a sign. I kind of look back on it maybe it was a sign. I looked at that guy Jesus who can mediate twenty- first century City Bank and first century Palestine and I thought maybe I ought to go work for him. Yeah, that was the point where I decided that maybe I ought to look at the spiritual side of things that I am being drawn too.
I love the quote that I've heard you mention. "God is a comedian that is playing to an audience that is afraid to laugh." Can you elaborate on this?
Susan Sparks:
That's a great quote by Voltaire. When I was in seminary trying to write my thesis on humor and the sacred if you can imagine a hundred pages on that, I found that Christianity lacks joy. We have lost the ability to laugh at ourselves. I found that other world religious traditions grabbed on to that sense of joy and laughter: Hinduism, Buddhism, Islamism and Judaism. We, Christians have lost it somewhere and I saw that quote and thought that's it. We're scared to laugh. We're so scared it might be considered blasphemous or dangerous. Humor can be subversive in people's minds and I would say humor can be dangerous but so can sanctity. I think the bigger concern is pride and sanctity rather than humor. I love that quote and it drives a lot of what I do today.
After you came out of law, you decided to take a trip around the world. Tell me about your experiences?
Susan Sparks:
A lot of folk have a path in front of them that is crystal clear and paved like a big interstate and mine was like a big muddy twisty tourney back road that I couldn't figure out. I knew I was being called into a place of non-profit work or some type of work in the spiritual realm but because of my background I couldn't possibly see a place for me in the church. I was a woman. I came out of a place where they didn't ordain women. I was a comedian for goodness sake. I like to drink a beer. All of these things don't combine into someone you would think should be a preacher. I didn't know what I needed to do next. I knew I had to get out of the law so I did what I do best which is basically cut and run. I packed a backpack, put everything in storage. I left the country and I ended up in Calcutta and I worked for Mother Teresa. Part of the trip, I wanted to see the world and I also wanted to engage in other world religious traditions. I wanted to see other cultures and I wanted to give back. I thought what better way to help than to start with Mother Teresa's orphanage so I wrote a letter and showed up. I stood in the threshold the orphanage and I was literally stunned, Angelia. I can't even begin to describe to you...four and five kids to a bed, some tied to the crib and not out of spite but because they didn't have enough people to take care of the children. The next thing I know I felt a tug on my leg and there was a little girl about four years old. I didn't know what to do so I sat down and she crawled into my lap and started laughing. One of the nuns came over and said this is Anna and she has been blind and deaf since birth but the one thing she can experience is vibration. If she feels someone walked past her she will reach out and grab them. Laughter is something she can experience. If you laugh she will laugh and put her head up against your chest and if you hum she will hum. Her whole life was through the experience of vibration. We sat there all afternoon. Anna would squeal and laugh and then she would put her head against my chest and I started laughing with this raw sort of tension with her. I thought there is the answer to my question humor and the sacred made manifest in this little girl that had no family and no life expectancy yet every single person that came into her life she exuded this brilliant joy. I thought I'm going back home and I'm going to seminary. I going to put laughter and joy into the church kicking and screaming if I have to. Anna was one the many experiences I had where laughter and joy was a core part of people's lives. It's almost as if God or the greater presence or whatever you want to call it was saying to me this is what you were meant to do. God said, "Do you need to see another example? Go home and make this work."
What other types of experiences did you have abroad?
Susan Sparks:
I had some very powerful experiences. I had the opportunity to spend some time with folk of the Hindu tradition and I learned about there traditions and spent some time in their temple. It's a fascinating religion in that God is mirrored in so many different faces. It's not multiple gods but multiple faces of god which I find to be beautiful and creative. Many of the faces are laughing. There is the Ganesha which is the elephant head over the doorways which is the god of new beginnings and the face of god that welcomes people into new journeys and it's laughing. There is Krishna the mischievous baby face which is the side of god that is mischievous or the trickster that laughs. The fact that someone would welcome that as the organic face of God is so beautiful. I had some wonderful experiences with Zen Buddhism sitting with some monks and talking about the power of humor and the journey of disengaging from self. The journey of no self and disengaging from life and earth is the Buddhist tradition. Humor was kind of way to cut that cord. The idea of what is the sound of one hand clapping is so crazy and then you laugh and you think oh, this isn't about rationalizing life it's about letting go and disconnecting. Of course, Judaism wins hands down for religion with best sense of humor. You can see it through all the hebrew bible traditions. I do stand up with a Rabbi Bob Alpert. Bob was sharing with me that the Jewish population in the US is 2% and yet 84% of the stand ups are Jewish.
Can you tell us about the world creation myths and laughter?
Susan Sparks:
In my thesis, I tried to find ancient traditions where laughter and religion were brought together. The tradition of humor and religion goes as far back 14th BC. There is a story from the Arcadian era that talks about the conversation between the gods and a priest called Ada-ba. It's written about humor and trying to get eternal life who would think that someone would write that kind of story in 14th Century BC. There are the stories of the Mesopotamians and the Greeks but the Egyptians actually had a creation story where human beings and the human soul was laughed into being. According to the Egyptian creation theory, there were Seven Bursts of Laughter. The story parallels the story of creation in Genesis. The first burst of laughter god's light was birthed, on the second burst of laughter the waters were born, and on the seventh burst of laughter god laughed the human soul into being. I think that is so beautiful because most of the hebrew scriptures talk about spirit, and wind and air and breath being the same thing. In the Egyptian story, we actually see the breath and laughter actually creating the human soul--this is what creates life, joy! Most people tell me how can you read the bible it's not funny. Are you kidding; have you read this thing? My favorite bible verse is I Samuel 5:9, King James Version. The Philistines and the Israelites got into a battle over the Arc of the Covenant and the Philistines won and God got mad."...And the Lord smote the men and they had hemorrhoids both small and great in their private parts." You can not make this up so when people say that God doesn't have a sense of humor, really I think you need to read this again. I checked the hebrew word and it does mean hemorrhoids.
You climbed Kilimanjaro?
Susan Sparks:
I did. I'd love to say that I got all the way to the top but I got 5 ft from the top and got hit with some nasty altitude sickness and had to come down the last day of the summit which was disappointing but who cares. Your still up there and you can see the Serengeti and experience all the amazing wildlife. In fact, my guide came to the church last week and gave an amazing presentation. Kilimanjaro was an important thing I wanted to do and in Nepal I wanted to go to the Everest Base Camp. I made a list, sort of a bucket list-- not end of life hopefully, of the things I wanted to do. I always wanted to do an archaeological dig so when I was in Israel I went down to the Dead Sea and signed on and did an archaeological dig down there. I really wanted to do an Safari and I was fortunate enough to go out and do that and then there was apart of me that wanted to go to South East Asia and study the religious traditions there too. After I got back from the year of traveling, I was fortunate enough to get into Seminary but I don't know I wasn't quite ready to go yet. I took the backpack off of British Air and threw in the back of my Jeep Wrangler and basically I drove to Alaska and I took another year off. I know that a lot of people are listening to this are thinking this woman is crazy. She's just certifiable and maybe that's true but I've found if you have a window to do something healing for yourself even if it is for an hour do it for yourself. I found myself in a two year window where I knew I would never see it again. The odds are I wouldn't have the means or the time to do this again so I thought you better go do it now so I did. I drove up to Alaska and fly fished went to every national park in the country and hiked and had some wonderful experiences with the Native cultures up there. Of course, the Aboriginal cultures have such a rich tradition of laughter in their ceremonies and in their rituals.
If you want more of this hour long interview, listen to the audio: www.blogtalkradio.com/adrenaline-living.
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